“A Fresh Approach to Lateral Partner Recruiting” with Scott Love

[00:00:00.250] – Intro

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[00:00:38.570] – David Ackert

Hello and welcome back to the Market Leaders Podcast. I’m David Ackert, and today our guest is Scott Love at The Attorney Search Group. Scott, great to have you with us.

[00:00:47.420] – Scott Love

Thank you David. I’m excited to be here.

[00:00:49.280] – David Ackert

So Scott, we’re going to talk today about three ways that lawyers and their firms can grow in terms of revenue. But before we do that, I think it’d be great for folks to learn a little bit about your background and about your firm, The Attorney Search Group. So let’s start with that.

[00:01:05.090] – Scott Love

Absolutely. I started as a recruiter, also known as a headhunter, but with a capital H back in 1995. Faxing resumes. I mean, I thought I was a big deal, David when I got my first fax machine. Prior to that I was a naval officer and I was in sales doing telecom sales. So I learned some good fundamentals about how to build connections with people, how to get them comfortable with moving forward and closing the sale, which is what really recruiting is. There’s a lot of salesmanship with it. Got into legal about 2009, 2010 and my company, The Attorney Search Group, we recruit partners, we do group placements and mergers and also small firm into large firm mergers and acquisitions.

[00:01:41.880] – David Ackert

Fantastic. Well, really appreciate you being on the show today for a couple of reasons. One, obviously talent acquisition is something that is very much top of mind. It has been recently and I think it will continue to be as firms look for opportunities to grow both into new areas but also simply grow that top line. You also have a podcast that I’ve had the pleasure of being a guest on about rainmakers. And so we’re going to talk a little bit about rainmaking in particular since you have some expertise in that area as well.

[00:02:12.960] – Scott Love

Great.

[00:02:13.740] – David Ackert

So typically when we work with firms, when we talk to firms, we recognize that there are generally three ways to grow a firm. One is through encouraging the lawyers to grow their books of business through their referral network. The second is to encourage the lawyers to grow their books of business through prospecting, whether that’s their law school colleagues, their alumni networks, essentially acquiring new clients by talking to those end users themselves and helping them to see how outsourcing legal services to the lawyer in question or the law firm in question would be beneficial for all involved. And then third is lateral recruiting. This is where the firm simply says, “We want to expand into this area, we want to expand into this region, or we simply want to expand with the book of business of this lawyer who we’re going to bring into the firm.” Certainly that’s an area where they would get you involved. But I thought we might spend a little bit of time on the first two strategies. Just because you talk to so many people about rainmaking through your podcast. I’d just be curious, when you’re talking to rainmakers, when you’re talking to people about rainmaking, what kinds of attitudes or what kinds of things do you hear rainmakers say when it comes to growing a book of business through their referral network?

[00:03:32.190] – Scott Love

I think it has to do with understanding what their value is in terms of solving problems for clients and helping those people that are potential referring partners know how to articulate that to a prospect. And it’s interesting, just the whole idea of referrals, just because you don’t know me doesn’t mean that I don’t have any value. I could be selling you a winning lottery ticket and if you don’t know me, then you feel unsafe. And so a referral helps people feel safe. That’s just the way we are, the way we’re guarded. High level prospects especially, they’ve got a lot of people trying to sell them things all the time. So they have much more robust walls that they’ve built to keep people out. And so because there’s a connection, because there’s someone that is a shared common friend or even just an acquaintance, that’s enough to get people to feel safe where they bring the walls down and they’re much more open minded about purchasing services. So I think, number one, an attorney has to know What’s the value? What’s the problem that you solve?What’s different about you compared to everybody else? What can you say about what you do that nobody else can say? And then helping those people that are potential referring sources understand how to articulate that to prospects. So I think those are some of the things that I’ve seen among rainmakers that really understand business development and how they get business through referrals.

[00:04:49.390] – David Ackert

That’s well said, Scott. I think the point about making sure that people understand what you do and that you’ve articulated that clearly. And also that point about safety, making sure that you built the relationship so that someone feels safe to trust you with a referral or trust you with their client.

[00:05:03.940] – Scott Love

Absolutely right. And that’s exactly what a referral is. It’s borrowing trust. I’ve already earned trust from someone. I’m going to let you borrow this when I introduce you to that person. So there’s risk associated with it also. So someone that’s looking to grow their practice through referrals, they’ve got to show that they’re a safe bet. I’m not going to embarrass you. I’m not going to do anything that would in any way harm you by introducing me to your network.

[00:05:27.170] – David Ackert

Yeah, that’s a really great point. When we work with small or mid sized firms, a lot of times the referral source is external to the firm, right? It’s the CPA, or it’s a lawyer in a non competing practice, or maybe it’s a conflicted matter or case. But as the firms grow in size, that referral network is almost exclusively internal. It’s cross selling between practice areas, between departments, and both of those principles apply. You’ve got to make sure that the other people in your referral network, whether it’s internal or external, number one, understand what you do and can articulate it on your behalf. And number two, trust you enough that they’re willing to bring you into their clients, their projects, et cetera.

[00:06:07.950] – Scott Love

Yeah, absolutely right.

[00:06:09.290] – David Ackert

So let’s move to strategy number two, growing a book of business through prospecting. Now, this is something that you know very well because you do it every day. You’re calling on prospective clients, whether those are firms who are interested in engaging your services as a lateral recruiter, or you’re calling on the lawyers themselves to see if they would be open to a conversation about making a move. So lawyers do some of this as well. They’re in dialogue with people in their networks who are prospective buyers of their services. Now, of course, there are ethics rules in place to put some guidelines around this. But if you’re a lawyer and you went to law school with someone else who you have maintained a relationship with, and they’re now inside counsel, let’s say, and in a position where they could hire you, then it’s a good idea to pick up the phone and call them from time to time and just say, “Hey, what’s going on? What kind of things are you delegating to other law firms? Where might there be an opportunity for us to work together at some point?” And that’s certainly an activity that lawyers are encouraged to engage in to grow their book of business.

[00:07:08.980] – Scott Love

Absolutely right. And I’ve seen that we can look at it as two different ways of prospecting. One of them is direct, where I’m not necessarily reaching out to them to sell them my service. I’m reaching out to them because I’d like to interview them for an article I’m writing, or interviewing them because of some sort of non business development reason that gets them to bring the wall down, they feel safe. Or I’d like to interview you and have you on my podcast related to this. Or I’m actually sitting on a panel, and I’m going to have you sit and attend as a panelist on the panel that I’m facilitating. Looking for non business development ways to connect with people that could lead to relationships. And I think you have to earn the right to build them. It can’t just be something that’s quick and contrived. It has to be authentic and it can take time. But me reaching out to you for a non business development issue, even though I know at some point I may have the chance to present my opportunity to you. But I also think the other one, inbound prospecting. You’re going to speak on a panel at that conference, you’re going to write a white paper, or you’re going to be a guest on a podcast. Those are the things that you can do that can get the call where you’re prospecting that way also. And one thing I’ll tell you, David, whether it’s avenue number one or avenue number two, it’s people that have a written plan and that do something with regularity, whether it’s weekly or daily or monthly, something like that, where it becomes a ritual and a habit. One successful young partner that I’ve met, he said, “My goal is to have 50 connections with people that can lead me to business opportunities.” And I said, “Well, how did you come up with that?” And he said, “One a week.” Whether it’s making contact with someone, just come and sit on a panel at an event that I’m chairing. So that’s what I think…Is understanding, you kniw you’ve got your referrals and you’ve got your prospecting, whether it’s outbound or inbound, and then having some regularity associated with that.

[00:08:53.550] – David Ackert

Yeah, I so appreciate all of your comments on this, Scott. I think that this is one that we could spend a couple of minutes unpacking because you can talk to a very cynical person and they’ll say, “Well, these are just all excuses to talk to people so that they hire you. Why don’t you just call it what it is?” Right? Or you might talk to somebody who has the opposite perspective where they say, “Look, I may never sell anything to any of these people. I’m just looking to add value to my relationships. I’m just looking to build goodwill. And I’m just going to trust that what goes around comes around.” Right? There are these two sort of opposite attitudes that we see. And I think the healthy attitude is somewhere in the middle because on the one hand, yes, you want to be thinking of this in terms of value adds you want to be thinking this in terms of building relationships. There has to be something in it for them, otherwise why would they engage? But at the same time, you don’t want to be naive about it. Yes, there is a business development component here, and ultimately business development is the avenue that leads to servicing people’s needs. Right, it’s a way of helping them. So there’s a lot of framing and reframing required here to keep people engaged in it, and to make sure that you are being business minded, but you’re also being relationship minded as you’re going through these regular rituals and habits that you talk about.

[00:10:06.450] – Scott Love

Absolutely right. And one thing I’ve noticed, also to your point, David, is that once you have your funnel filled and once you have that flywheel effect and you’ve got critical mass, you’ve got momentum, and you’re killing it and you’re doing well, then you don’t feel the pressure to…”I’ve got to close this sale or I’ve got to get this matter,” or whatever it is. And then you find that as you’ve been doing this, you actually do develop a natural curiosity about other people. I think having that curiosity and having that sincere curiosity is disarming to people because do you have an agenda? Absolutely. We’re all in business, we all have an agenda, but we don’t have to do it. And I think having that particular antenna up where you are looking for potential opportunities and you’re going to harvest those in the service of your clients, I think that is a good balance. That’s something I’ve noticed just in my own world. I talk to partners. I say, “Listen, realtors don’t sell every house that they show. I’m just going to talk with you, and if I can help you, that’s great. If I can’t, I’d be glad to be a resource for you.” And not having that pressure, I think it really moves the relationship forward because nobody likes to be pushed or manipulated, but people are happy to follow someone who they trust. I really believe that. That it’s about having that balanced approach, like you said, and getting good at it and realizing this is a skill that anybody can learn.

[00:11:19.500] – David Ackert

Right. Well, let’s talk about this third strategy, which is lateral recruiting, something that you spend your days engaged in. This is essentially where a firm is buying a book of business. Right? And they’re also buying that lawyer’s network, that lawyer’s area of expertise, whatever regional influence they might have as a way of expanding into that region. So how have you seen firms leverage this strategy effectively?

[00:11:46.430] – Scott Love

I think that I’ve seen it evolve over the years from where it used to be. (It used to be) “Yes, we like your partner with the $5 million book of business. By the way, what does he do again?” And I think (now) it’s a little bit more…and I’m truly impressed that a lot of the firms that I work closely with have matured. They’ve gotten more effective at really understanding what their priorities are and why. Opportunistic hires do work, but that’s sometimes you get lucky, you find someone that happens to have a shared client and, oh, yes, this could actually fit. But I think understanding what the priorities are from the big picture and kind of looking at what practices, what industries, and what is really the need of the clients and how can you solve that, and that leads us to have this as our priority. And then looking at that new partner or the new group leader, where it’s not necessarily just the top line revenue, it’s what is the potential of bringing this person in, where we now cross pollinate each other’s opportunities. And so this is a thing, I remember meeting with an AmLaw 100 chairman, David, it was the first time I was ever dealing with someone at that level. I’ll never forget, they invited me, they said, “He’s going to be here in Washington. He wants to meet you!” And I was so excited, and I’m in the waiting area, and their firm’s recruiter walked out. She greeted me, and as we’re walking in, she says, “Now you’ve got 30 minutes.” And I realized, “Oh, this is a shootout. This is a beauty contest. There’s two other people just like me after me.” And I realized…it just changed everything. So I remember asking him, I said, “If we could solve your biggest growth challenge and achieve a certain result in the next three years, what would that look like?” And he told me. Then I asked him another question. I said, “How would that impact your legacy as chairman?” And he really took it to heart, and he was very serious about it. And he said, “I want to leave this firm much better than the way I found it because I truly care about my partners.” And I think just asking him that question, I earned the trust to go a little bit deeper. And I remember explaining to him that this isn’t just top line revenue. You are using lateral partner recruiting as an effective client development tool. And I remember it was almost like he’d never considered it before. But it’s not just the revenue. It’s not just the partner coming in. This partner, he or she has developed trust with a cadre of about a dozen C suite executives over the past few decades. And what you’re really getting is trust. You’re getting the trust of this new partner coming in where he or she tells his or her clients, “Follow me to this new firm. It’s going to be better for you.” And when they get there, looking for how do you cross pollinate and having a really good plan of integrating them in. The firms have gotten more sophisticated. Some have a full time integration director, but that’s their full time job. They’re not just doing two jobs and getting paid for one. That’s their full time job, is integrating people in and having a granular look at the business case. So I think that we’re playing three dimensional chess here on multiple levels. You’ve got all these variables that have to align, and the goal shouldn’t just be, we’re going to get your revenue and it’s going to grow a little. It’s got to be something that’s synergistic over the next few years. And it’s going to be good for you, it’s going to be good for our firm. But most importantly, it has to be good for the clients. And I remember I had one partner, and I’ll tell you this other story. He’d gotten multiple offers. I presented him to four firms, and he got offers from two of them, and both of them were from my clients. And whenever I do that, I tell my clients, that he’s looking at other options so that there’s no surprises. And so he’s looking at me. He said, “Which firm should I choose? And David, I’m getting paid on either one. And I remember I told him, “I’m never going to answer that question because I don’t want to get blamed if it doesn’t work out!” But I said, “Which firm would be best for your clients?” Instantly, that was the firm that he went to, and he’s doing very well there. So it’s all about the clients. When you bring new partners in, it’s not just about how is the firm going to harvest revenue, how is the new partner going to succeed, but how is that hire going to improve the condition of the clients? When you have that perspective, I don’t think you can ever go wrong David.

[00:15:36.420] – David Ackert

Yeah, that’s great. You know, we forget, I think, that at the end of the day, at the heart of what we do is service. It’s helping people. It’s making our clients lives and their businesses better. And that extends into every decision that we make, including the people that we add to our teams. You talked about something earlier. You referenced integration. I thought we could spend a little more time on that. We all know the statistics. Within three years, half of laterals move on to their next firm, and so they’re considered failed acquisitions. We know that of the books of business promised, only about a third of that value actually ends up at the firm and ends up transferring over from the prior firm. So integration is key, and making sure that that lateral placement ultimately is a success in the long term. You mentioned there’s one key here, which is, don’t just make one of your partners, your lateral partner, and now they have another job on top of the three committees they sit on and the robust book of business that they’re already trying to build and the clients that they’re trying to serve. We don’t want this to be an exercise in spinning yet another plate. We want dedicated people who know how to integrate laterals, how to make new lawyers successful at the firm. What are some other keys to ensure that an integration is thoughtful and ultimately effective?

[00:16:58.410] – Scott Love

I think that’s a very good question. Knowing what metrics are measurable as you go forward and coming up with certain benchmarks and seeing, are you hitting those? I mean, we could talk about on a granular level what some of those might be, but it could be number of introductions, it could be meetings that they get with current firm clients, things like that. But let’s not just wait 18 months and say, “Gosh, the business didn’t port over like we thought.” Let’s do it every two weeks. Let’s kind of check in every week. Let’s have a checklist where we’re actually going over our process. One of the things I did when I was 24, David, after I finished my sea duty tour in the Navy, I was actually a leadership development trainer at the world’s largest naval base in Norfolk, Virginia. The Navy had an initiative called Total Quality Leadership, which derived from total quality management methods. So at a young age, I learned just by being a trainer, teaching people statistical process control, fancy charts and graphs. How do you measure? Because anything you measure can improve over time. And we have to look at a law firm as a business because it is, and all the different components of that the same way a really smart business person would do that within their company. Especially this one variable right here of new partners coming in that have trust with about a dozen C Suite executives and potential business. And then also, how do we look for better odds? Not just having somebody that’s doing this, but somebody that really takes care. But then how do we get better odds of a successful lateral hire? Looking for what I call connection points. Who are the people that this new partner knows within the firm? One thing that I do, for example, I’ve got a group leader. I presented several different firm options to him. And through a tool I get through Leopard Solutions, I can find out who this partner knows within the firms that I’m presenting to him. And it made him feel safe. “Wow, that’s right, I didn’t know that she went there!” Or “I forgot that she works there!” He knows three or four people in one of the firms that I suggested to him. So he feels safe. So I think we can do the same thing from a client development perspective. How do we get our clients to feel safe about this new lateral partner coming into our firm? What are those connection points where you can sync a partner quickly and deeply into a firm from the very beginning? One other variable about this, David, I think is interesting, is having this process and having it in place, and if I were King, if I were chairman of a law firm, I would have my own logo of our integration process created with our firm logo attached to it. And I would even have my trademark people trademark our brand associated with our process. And some firms have such a good process that their process itself is a key selling point of distinction about them compared to the 199 other law firms out there that want this person. So I would treat it like if you look at what gets you the most bang for the buck, it’s lateral partner recruiting in terms of new clients coming in because the trust is there. The one thing that you and every other expert in business development can’t dispute is that trust is the most important thing we have to have a client. And you’re getting it with lateral partner recruiting. Make that a priority, and you’ll have more business than you can handle. That’s my promise.

[00:20:00.710] – David Ackert

Well, what you point to here is the fact that we are working against an inherent social experience. When we’re kids and the new kid shows up who just moved in from out of town. There is an inherent distrust. There’s this, “Well, let’s see if this kid’s going to fit in.” And the kid is nervous about it because they’re thinking “Am I going to fit in? And are these people going to accept me?” And there are all of these questions around there being a lack of trust and a lack of safety inherent in that situation. We learn this at a very young age. We have this inherent xenophobia that’s kind of built into our psyche to protect what we have and not necessarily bring in that unknown factor until it’s proven itself. And we have to work against all of those instincts in order for a lateral integration to be effective right off the bat. No wonder there have to be documented systems. No wonder there has to be at least a person, if not a whole department, who’s responsible for making sure that this process goes smoothly and that people are working against that instinct to distrust the new factor and to actually embrace them right off the bat. To let them be successful early so that they can infuse and ultimately integrate into the firm’s culture and the firm’s successes.

[00:21:16.450] – Scott Love

David, I think that is an insightful realization. I’ve never even considered it like that. Let’s just call it the freshman dilemma. Here comes a new freshman. We’re going to make it hard. We’re going to make you have a pleib summer like they did at the Naval Academy because you’re new. No, we want to make it warm and welcoming and embrace them and make it easy for them to integrate in. That’s an insightful observation that you had, David. I never even considered it like that.

[00:21:39.390] – David Ackert

We’re looking for the opposite of hazing, whatever that is.

[00:21:42.110] – Scott Love

That’s right.

[00:21:43.970] – David Ackert

Well, Scott, it’s so great to get your thoughts on these three ways that firms can grow, especially the third, given that it’s such a rich area of expertise. And it’s delight to reconnect with you here and have a chance to banter back and forth a bit on these ideas. So thanks for joining us.

[00:21:59.620] – Scott Love

Always good to see you. Thank you, David.

[00:22:02.050] – Outro

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